White women in Japan.

[MMM]

Well since a lot of Japanese girls who live in Japan are able to have white boyfriends/husbands......


why can't a Japanese guy who live in Japan have a white girlfriend???

I think we have talked about this already, but if you are asking seriously I think there are a few answers.

One is that there are plenty of Japanese men who have white girlfriends. In my experience the balance is not equal, but certainly not impossible. On the old JF boards there were plenty of Western gals pining for Japanese boyfriends.

I think the issue is more one of accessibility. I am not sure where I would go to meet white gals in Japan. White guys are easily found in British-style pubs and other gaijin bars, and that's where Japanese girls go to meet foreign men, but, again the balance for girls isn't quite the same.

Also I imagine knowledge of English is a bit more of a must.

Are there foreign dating sites in Japan?

[ssjup81]

Well since a lot of Japanese girls who live in Japan are able to have white boyfriends/husbands......


why can't a Japanese guy who live in Japan have a white girlfriend???

Not sure if it's true or not, but I always heard that seeing Japanese girls with foreign guys is more common as opposed to Japanese guys with foreign girls is because they find them intimidating and are too shy to approach them.

[MMM]

Not sure if it's true or not, but I always heard that seeing Japanese girls with foreign guys is more common as opposed to Japanese guys with foreign girls is because they find them intimidating and are too shy to approach them.

Couple points, the vast majority of Japanese marrying non-Japanese are Japanese men marrying women from other parts of Asia. Japanese women and Western men is the minority.

Also, what Western men find attractive about Japanese women is also what Japanese men find attractive about Japanese women.

Why do we assume Japanese men WANT to date foreign women?

[Columbine]

Also, what Western men find attractive about Japanese women is also what Japanese men find attractive about Japanese women.

Why do we assume Japanese men WANT to date foreign women?

Don't forget concerning single western women in Japan is that there's also a lot less of us! My company is a pretty stereotypical representation of the employee ratio, about a third women to two thirds men, and the women on average stay for shorter lengths of time. Add rarity as a variable onto bad stereotypes, unavailability, disinterest, lack of language skills, difference in dating style, lack of intention to stay long term and the occasional lesbian, then finding a straight, interested, Japanese speaking, single, willing to settle, socially and culturally aware western girl is a bit like hunting for snow leopards in Nepal. They're OUT there somewhere- finding them is another matter, and is the effort really worth it?

[MMM]

Also, what Western men find attractive about Japanese women is also what Japanese men find attractive about Japanese women.

Why do we assume Japanese men WANT to date foreign women?

Don't forget concerning single western women in Japan is that there's also a lot less of us! My company is a pretty stereotypical representation of the employee ratio, about a third women to two thirds men, and the women on average stay for shorter lengths of time. Add rarity as a variable onto bad stereotypes, unavailability, disinterest, lack of language skills, difference in dating style, lack of intention to stay long term and the occasional lesbian, then finding a straight, interested, Japanese speaking, single, willing to settle, socially and culturally aware western girl is a bit like hunting for snow leopards in Nepal. They're OUT there somewhere- finding them is another matter, and is the effort really worth it?

I think you pretty much nailed it.

[glowsilver]

Part of the reason that foreign men are willing to stay longer is if they are looking for a Japanese wife, but there doesn't seem to exist a similar incentive for western women

One thing I have noticed is that I've met a lot of western women who had either left Japan, or were planning to leave Japan because they didn't want their children to be raised there. One didn't like the education system, another said she didn't want her children to grow up exposed to images of idol-girls which she thought were disrespectful to women. I've never heard a western man in Japan object to bringing up children there

[Columbine]

Part of the reason that foreign men are willing to stay longer is if they are looking for a Japanese wife, but there doesn't seem to exist a similar incentive for western women

One thing I have noticed is that I've met a lot of western women who had either left Japan, or were planning to leave Japan because they didn't want their children to be raised there. One didn't like the education system, another said she didn't want her children to grow up exposed to images of idol-girls which she thought were disrespectful to women. I've never heard a western man in Japan object to bringing up children there

I've heard men object to bringing up kids here, but if you have a Japanese wife you've got up the duff, it's a bit much to suddenly ask her to emigrate as well. Mostly they just get on and deal with it, relying on the fact that a Japanese wife has friends and family and local knowledge and language for support. I don't think those ladies gave particularly great reasons, although the education system here does take some getting your head around, but then perhaps they weren't really saying everything.

Majority of the men who come over are just looking for a good time, not a wife, and then end up either getting hitched or ditching Japan and moving on elsewhere. From my own perspective, I'd have to think very very long and hard about having a kid in japan if I stayed long term. It's one thing to father a child and stick by it in Japan- helping with upkeep and housing and all of that, it's a totally different kettle of fish to give birth overseas.

Firstly, most foreigners don't speak the language and don't have much incentive to learn, especially in Tokyo. With the best will in the world, frantically cramming for 9 months isn't going to remedy this, and there's still going to be a lot of medical jargon and so on you won't understand, plus registering your child, schooling, dealing with teachers, etc. Secondly, things women take for granted in the UK and America, simply don't happen in Japan. Epidurals for one are apparently pretty rare. Some hospitals don't allow the father into the room. Can you imagine being in that situation for a normal birth, never mind if something went wrong? I'm not saying it's impossible or that people can't or don't do it, but it's one hell of a big scary decision to make, especially if you're not really dove-tailed with being in Japan in the first place. A couple of ladies I've spoken to have admitted they'd have rather gone back home for the birth, but expense and the sheer amount of time it would take was what ultimately made them have the birth in Japan.

Also being foreign, you might have a much smaller, more widely dispersed number of friends, and your family is likely to be on the other side of the globe, which if you're close is going to be a strain. Finally, we're also likely to look at the lifestyle in Japan and compare it unfavourably to our own childhood, stereotypically speaking. I grew up with garden, two cats, a dog, riding lessons, and a vast track of farmland to muck about on. My parents could take us to the woods, or make jam with us or grow veggies on the weekend and still be within an hours commute of work in a big urban area. We weren't even rich by a long shot of the imagination, but the point is, if I had kids in Tokyo, they would probably never have a treehouse or go to tea at my mum and dads once a week.

[Nyororin]

Part of the reason that foreign men are willing to stay longer is if they are looking for a Japanese wife, but there doesn't seem to exist a similar incentive for western women

I think that this is not so much because men are looking for wives in Japan, but that the mindset in coming to Japan to begin with is a lot different to begin with. There is a different pool of people.
For example - you will encounter a lot of older western men. In older, I don't mean in their 40s or 50s, but in their late 20s and 30s. Most western women in Japan tend to be either in school or fresh graduates. There are plenty of fresh graduate men, but they really are the one year bunch. With women, the majority are fresh graduates or in Japan on study... Those who aren't tend to be married before coming to Japan. This has little to do with Japan, there just seem to be more men with disposable incomes and degrees prepared to spend a few years in Japan for the experience. Most of the women I have met who have come to Japan in the same group have been far more concerned with making money and having something to put on their resume than the experience alone.

Pretty much all the western men I have met in Japan who married a Japanese woman did not stay longer in Japan looking - the majority sort of found themselves married before they knew it.

One thing I have noticed is that I've met a lot of western women who had either left Japan, or were planning to leave Japan because they didn't want their children to be raised there. One didn't like the education system, another said she didn't want her children to grow up exposed to images of idol-girls which she thought were disrespectful to women.
I've never heard a western man in Japan object to bringing up children there

The men who object move out of Japan with wife (and kids) in tow. The man is usually the breadwinner, so it is a lot easier for him to take the family and leave. In fact, the majority of western man - Japanese woman marriages leave Japan for the man's home country. Those who stay in Japan tend to be the small percentage that do not strongly object, or who truly have no other prospects.
The man is also likely to be the breadwinner in the western woman's case also - so it is much much harder for her to push him to leave home and job to move to another country. There is a larger price to the commitment - it isn't just a marriage to the individual, but the entire package comes into play making it a lot harder to even consider for most women.

[Nyororin]

Two posts in a row, but too long for a single one... Apologies.

I've heard men object to bringing up kids here, but if you have a Japanese wife you've got up the duff, it's a bit much to suddenly ask her to emigrate as well. Mostly they just get on and deal with it, relying on the fact that a Japanese wife has friends and family and local knowledge and language for support.

The thing is, it happens *all the time*. Most western men DO emigrate with their wives in tow - it is even one of the big reasons the majority of those marriages fail. The wife is usually taken home with the man, and is ultimately unable to deal with it.
I would say that far more of the western men remaining in Japan who I have met have their children in international school and run a "western" household than not.

I don't think those ladies gave particularly great reasons, although the education system here does take some getting your head around, but then perhaps they weren't really saying everything.

As far as reasoning goes, I would say it sounds very typical. Most of the time they are not in Japan long enough to know much about the school system other than surface observance and (often blatantly incorrect or seriously outdated) rumors from others. And if they plan to leave anyway, there is little incentive to look any deeper.

Firstly, most foreigners don't speak the language and don't have much incentive to learn, especially in Tokyo. With the best will in the world, frantically cramming for 9 months isn't going to remedy this, and there's still going to be a lot of medical jargon and so on you won't understand, plus registering your child, schooling, dealing with teachers, etc.

This may be true, but it is no different when the mother is Japanese and the father western. There is no change in incentives to learn the language... And... Well... I would hope that the thought of a child came up before pregnancy. Nine months of cramming isn't going to help, but thinking ahead about having a baby and having a partner who you can talk to is certainly going to.

Epidurals for one are apparently pretty rare.

This one is true...

Some hospitals don't allow the father into the room. Can you imagine being in that situation for a normal birth, never mind if something went wrong? I'm not saying it's impossible or that people can't or don't do it, but it's one hell of a big scary decision to make, especially if you're not really dove-tailed with being in Japan in the first place.

But this one falls into the big gaping ravine of "lack of knowledge about how things are done in Japan".
The terminology is correct - many hospitals do not allow the father into the room. The key here is this - where do most women give birth? In clinics, or at a midwife facility. Not in a hospital.
Childbirth in Japan is not covered directly by health insurance. You are given a flat amount to cover the birth of a child, and are free to use it to pay for any sort of birth you so desire. This means that there are an enormous number of facilities offering custom, tailored birth packages that fit the insurance money. The majority of women give birth at one of these. Hospitals - those strict facilities with little flexibility and no father rules, etc - are for complications and emergencies. If you are in the hospital to give birth, chances are there is some sort of serious problem that may require major medical intervention that only a hospital can provide. If you are giving birth with a team of doctors on hand because you have some complication, it really isn't the place to be asking dad to come watch.

Giving birth in a foreign country is indeed a big decision to make, but often the reasons cited are misguided.

Also being foreign, you might have a much smaller, more widely dispersed number of friends, and your family is likely to be on the other side of the globe, which if you're close is going to be a strain. Finally, we're also likely to look at the lifestyle in Japan and compare it unfavourably to our own childhood, stereotypically speaking. I grew up with garden, two cats, a dog, riding lessons, and a vast track of farmland to muck about on. My parents could take us to the woods, or make jam with us or grow veggies on the weekend and still be within an hours commute of work in a big urban area. We weren't even rich by a long shot of the imagination, but the point is, if I had kids in Tokyo, they would probably never have a treehouse or go to tea at my mum and dads once a week.

This is no different for men and women, so I don't really think it plays a major role in the discrepancy between men and women in Japan.

[RobinMask]

Thanks for all that information, Nyororin. It was very informative!

Out of curiosity, do doctors administer epidurals if the mother/patient requests it? I mean, I know it's not common, but is it just a cultural thing where women can just do without, or - even if requested - would it still not be given? Also, could a woman give birth in a hospital by choice (if there weren't any complications as mentioned)? It's just I wondered what would happen if something did go wrong, would the centres/clinics be able to deal with those complications? It seems risky to have to then move someone to a hospital after.